Coding in Notepad does not make you clever.
Posted by: Edd Mills on: December 12, 2006
- In: Uncategorized
- Comment!
A friend of mine just asked what I use to code my web sites and I triumphantly stated that I use Dreamweaver, a program that I deem one of the most fantastic pieces of software I’ve ever owned. Anyway, having told him this (and using the ‘hot’ emoticon on MSN) he told me a quick story of how his friend (who is a year younger than me, apparently) uses Notepad to code his websites. This was subsequently described as “cool”.
Now, I want to make something really clear here; coding with Notepad does not make you cool. Making more work for yourself is not cool. Being counter productive is not cool. Using Notepad for some sort of warped credibility does not make you cool. Notepad is not and never will be a productive environment to code web sites. Even on the very basic level, it lacks line numbers and coloured code, how can that be considered useful?
I do use Notepad2 quite a bit, for editing straight from Filezilla because it’s pointless to get Dreamweaver open to make a small edit but the key point here is that Notepad2 (and a plethora of other text editors) support coloured code and line numbers (oh my!), basic features that Notepad doesn’t provide simply because it was never really made for coding web sites.
So, if you’re coding your web sites completely in Notepad, please think again. It’s not cool and its not clever. Your reasons for doing it are warped and, to be quite honest, quite sad. If you wish to look clever, I’m sure there are better ways of doing it than coding web sites through the most laboured method ever created.
124 Responses to "Coding in Notepad does not make you clever."
December 12, 2006 at 5:50 pm
But in terms of a productive environment, using Notepad isn’t a good idea. Yeah, you can use it sometimes to see how your memory is but coding for production is about quality code, not what you can remember.
December 13, 2006 at 1:51 am
there are two types of web designers, coders and those who use wysiwyg apps. these types cannot be mixed or compared, it’s like science and religion. both have their own stories to tell and facts to prove but both are totally different. It doesn’t matter what you use to produce your website, it’s just all about where you’re more comfortable. It’s just like comparing a person riding the bicycle to work to a person riding a car. both ways takes them to the same place, it’s just the medium that’s different.
December 13, 2006 at 1:07 pm
bravekn1ght: I think everyone is more comfortable with syntax colouring, line number, proper tabbing and code folding.
If not then get out of the 80s.
December 13, 2006 at 2:54 pm
brabekn1ght: There are more types than just coders and WSYIWYGers. I prefer to code my way through the CSS and skeleton framework, put in mock text, then go into design mode (yes, in dreamweaver), and work with it visualy, and alternate between code and design, forsaking “WYSIWYG,” by it’s definition. What you don’t see is what you get, but what you see lets you get there better. WYDSIWYGBWYSLYGTB. That’s my two cents.
December 13, 2006 at 3:04 pm
This post should not have been dugg. No evidence, no anything.
December 13, 2006 at 3:07 pm
Homesite ftw!
Since long I’ve been looking for an alternative to Homesite but I never found one. So, IMHO its the best HTML/PHP Editor available.
December 13, 2006 at 3:08 pm
I think the misconception is that Dreamweaver = GUI. With the exception of a few nice features, most of the features of Dreamweaver’s Code View can be replicated with a decent Scintilla-based editor like Notepad++ (or Notepad2, in your case).
I doubt very much that it this friend is using Notepad—the gist, I take it, is that he’s editing code instead of working with a GUI.
December 13, 2006 at 3:12 pm
‘code quality’ is not directly proportional to the ‘whiz bang bling’ features in your editor/tool of choice. Instead ‘code quality’ is directly proportional to the knowledge and experience of the person writing it relative to known sets of criterion for quality for any given language applied to the output of said person.
If you are productive in notepad, dreamweaver, emacs, moleskin note pad then that is totally fine and need not be a source or reason for accolade nor ridicule.
Your ego is only thing manipulated by such stupidity.
December 13, 2006 at 3:13 pm
I’ll agree with in that it’s more productive to have color coding and the such. But if you want that go off and get TextMate for SubEthaEdit for much cheaper than Dreamweaver. From my experince people who use Dreamweaver hardly know much about html, css, and the whole speel. Using a text editor, with color syntax if you want to be picky, forces you to know what your doing, the language your coding in, keep you code clean and easy for the next person or yourself later down on in the road. I will never use dreamweaver because it is counter-productive.
December 13, 2006 at 3:16 pm
Get TextMate (Mac OS X only) and use snippets. Best of both worlds.
December 13, 2006 at 3:16 pm
I agree completely with this post. Notepad is a horrible choice.
Of course there is nothing wrong with web development in a text editor. HTML, css and Javascript files are, after all, plain text, and a good developer should be able to write them well by hand.
However, a good developer also knows how to pick a great tool for editing plain text! Just that you code by hand doesn’t mean you should use the stupidest text editor available; powerful editors have features that help you craft text – coloured code, large files, line numbers, automatic indenting, help with closing braces, multiple open files, spell checkers, etc etc etc.
If your career involves writing a lot of plain text, you better find a really powerful text editor and learn how to use it in anger. Using Notepad is utterly unprofessional.
December 13, 2006 at 3:16 pm
Using a very basic editor like Notepad is very unproductive in most cases. But honestly it forces you to learn the foundation of web design and programming. By using WYSIWYG you deprive your self of knowledge that can help you in the future.
December 13, 2006 at 3:17 pm
an elitist perspective on something as silly as coding is an extremist and counter productive position in anything, be it coding, a drawing program or shoes.
use what you comfortable with, but realise that this comfortable place your in, your cave, there is always a nicer, cozier more practical cave over the horizon. it may even have your power animal chillaxing.
December 13, 2006 at 3:18 pm
On the plus side – if you write your HTML “clean” so that you can edit it in Notepad if necessary, you can access it from any machine anywhere – and not have to lame-out with a “I don’t have my editor here” excuse.
Syntax coloring is nice, but laying out your code so you don’t need it is nicer.
Line numbers are a waste of time in HTML.
A lot of the WYSIWYG tools put out such awful HTML code that you can never edit it by hand again after they have touched it. This is where those annoying “I don’t know why it does that” comments come from.
If you’ve coded it up in Notepad, odds are you know exactly why something is happening, or can find out fairly quickly.
This post was a Troll, and I’ve risen to the bait – yes, you can do some things more easily in the uber-tools, but if you (or your customer) don’t need that uber-functionality, there’s nothing inefficient about coding a simple project with a simple editor.
And there’s nothing cool about not knowing how your code works.
December 13, 2006 at 3:18 pm
its called notepad2. check it out and then youll have your line numbers and color. I agree with James. You’re just jealous.
December 13, 2006 at 3:19 pm
Actually, to put a finer point on it, the general rule is that anything you do on a Windows box is by definition not elite.
The misconception arises from people who don’t understand computers and technology. I tell them I code in Emacs. They don’t know that I do this because it makes my job easier. All they know about it is that it’s harder for them to use. The next obvious conclusion is that the harder something is to use, the more elite it must be. Presto, whacking out 50,000 lines of Visual Basic in Notepad must make you a better coder, because it’s so hard to do!
You can find identical reasoning on any South Seas island where Cargo Cultism is practiced.
December 13, 2006 at 3:20 pm
If you require line numbers and colored code you are not a true coder. Being able to say that I built this site from the ground up is actually quite “Cool.” How could you possibly have any sense of gratification from dragging buttins and cells into a window? In fact, the only thing I can think of that is better than being able to code in notepad, is designing you own programming language. I agree with the above poster, this should not have been dugg.
December 13, 2006 at 3:21 pm
so, it’s ok for you to triumphantly state that you use dreamweaver, but it’s annoying when people do the same for notepad. people like to do things in their own way, and it’s no reason to be so resentful and condescending.
December 13, 2006 at 3:22 pm
Sorry, but if you were worth your salt as a web developer you would be able to do things in notepad just as quick as in Dreamweaver.
In fact, its actually quicker for me as I don’t have to spend ages correcting Dreamweavers mistakes or searching for useless pieces of code that have been randomly thrown in.
Notepad may not be the most helpful choice, but certainly a text editor over WYSIWYG, even the text editor in Dreamweaver is a good choice as its colour coded and has hint tools.
After a few more years developing sites, you’ll probably look back at this post and realise how wrong you were
December 13, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Why the hell would anyone use Dreamweaver OR Notepad to code websites anyway? Vim, an open-source text editor, is definitely the way to go. Using that with the GIMP, for graphics development, is a perfect solution for web development, and this practice helps achieve much cleaner, faster-loading, more efficient and better structured code than when using a WYSIWYG HTML editor. Truly, if you take part in any form of web *programming*, you do not want to use the WYSIWYG features of tools such as Dreamweaver. In my opinion, they will slow you and your site down. If you want to truly conform to web standards such as XHTML 1/1.1 and CSS 2/3 you aren’t going to be using a WYSIWYG html editor to design a page. You’re definitely not going to be making any innovative or completely authentic site designs by using shortcuts like Dreamweaver… It limits what you can do to a web browser… And, it’s a damned memory hog 
December 13, 2006 at 3:30 pm
This has hint’s of the classic letter “Real Programmers Don’t Use Pascal”, just that in this case you’re not right, and it’s not funny.
As a web programmer, Dreamweaver is the most unproductive environment to code in, ever! It’s code support is fairly poor and limited. You want to get yourself a real text editor like Vi, Emacs, Textmate SkEdit etc.
If you are a web designer however, Dreamweaver is fine, as generally most of your text-editing is going to be the adjustment of CSS attributes, something which Dreamweaver is very good at.
December 13, 2006 at 3:30 pm
We are coders in our company, delphi coders, and use notepad-like programs for our html/php/css site, just becuase we need to know every bit of the code so our delphi apps can also produce propper html code on the fly, as they do.
Using a fancier app is ok, but not for us, we need to know how to talk html rather than doing our site revamp in minutes better than in hours.
Anyway, fancy editors use to write 1/5 of your text and data plus 4/5 of not needed or redundant code, just try to save a doc to html in word, for instance! I hate this.
December 13, 2006 at 3:30 pm
As a Web developer, I’ve seen both “types” of people described. From what I’ve seen, the Web sites developed by the WYSIWYG fans tend to look nicer, but the code behind it is VERY cluttered, unorganized and even sometimes just badly implemented. On the other side of the spectrum, I see the complete opposite: people that work solely with the code (such as using a syntax highlighter like Notepad2 as the blog pointed out) tend to have slightly less-beautiful web sites, but the code is a lot cleaner and much better used.
So maybe you’re saying who cares about the code as long as the page looks nice in the end? Go on to make professional Web sites, use something like PHP, ASP or even Java. You’ll quickly learn why GOOD and CLEAN code is essential.
Ultimately, I guess I prefer to work with people like Jack. It’s the best of both worlds: excellent page design, yet usually pushes out good code.
On another note, I think that working with Notepad as an editor might not be such of a good idea, simply because alternatives like Notepad2 exist. I think (er.. hope) that the argument was that editing the code is in some way better than solely using a WYSIWYG editor. Again, from my experience, I’ve found that a healthy mix of the two works best.
December 13, 2006 at 3:31 pm
Compared to shit like dreamweaver, notepad is really a nice editor, not in the vim level – but still better than WYSIWYG.
Ps: You blog entry is not valid HTML, you should use a better editor.
PPS: I coded an 7000 sites homepage with >150k visitors a month only in vim, without nice buttons and this crap like thingies, and i feel much more clever now.
December 13, 2006 at 3:31 pm
If syntax coloring and line numbers are what you think makes for a good code editor, I think there’s a little DOS program called ‘QBasic’ that might be right up your alley.
A good code editor understands more than how to color syntax, it needs to be able to manipulate it and move around in it, easily. Editors like Emacs and Vim are exceptionally good at this, and it seems that Visual Studio and things like Komodo are good as well (I imagine there are others – I don’t spend half my natural life evaluating editors).
Your editor should be programmable so you can take trivial, repetitive tasks and turn them into something that you only have to execute once.
The important underlying current here is that things that save you time are the things that make a code editor a code editor. Consider Word for the grammatically challenged; it’s a huge time-saver.
December 13, 2006 at 3:34 pm
I think it totally depends on the size and scope of the sites you are building. I could totally code everything by hand in notepad if I wanted to. But a lot of the sites I work on are large, and very complex. So I take advantage of all the tools available to me. Dreamweaver, Web Developer tools in Firefox, etc. It’s all about efficiency. If you’re building 6 pages, Notepad might be fine. Not if you’re building 60. And just because someone uses Dreamweaver as their tool of choice does not mean they are relying on the WYSIWYG side. All the sites I create are standards compliant, semantic, totally clean code. I just use dreamweaver to speed things up.
December 13, 2006 at 3:41 pm
Some of the best web developers I know write web pages in notepad.
Also, HTML hardly qualifies as code. Syntax highlighting and line numbers are all useful, but hardly add to productivity. I have been programming C and Java in basic text editors for awhile now, and it really helps you code better, because you write more explicitly and comment better when its all you have to go by.
December 13, 2006 at 4:22 pm
Why should HTML be coded by hand in any sense of the term? Is there some code (pun intended) that says it’s better to do things manually even though there are machines available that also do the job?
Yeah, buddy, I’m a real hardcore coder, old-school! I don’t even use Word, I write raw PostScript or PCL! That proves I know these languages inside out?
But who cares how much you know about the innards? We just want the output! We don’t care about anything but the output, dammit! How you got there is entirely immaterial. It doesn’t matter what tool you use–but if you’re using a teaspoon to fill a swimming pool, you’re blatantly inefficient. If you’re using Notepad for complex code, more power to you, but you’re wasting time. Yes, it’s worthwhile knowing how to code; that doesn’t mean you have to be shackled to manual code-writing forever.
When was the last time you had to hand-edit PostScript code? The same should be true about HTML, real soon now.
December 13, 2006 at 4:38 pm
If you’re only writing in Notepad to try to prove you’re cool then you’re not. However, if you actually want to understand what you’re making Notepad is a must.
In fact, if I hadn’t spend my formative years coding in Notepad and VI I wouldn’t be able to write programs to write dynamic code like I do now.
However, Dreamweaver is the next best thing. No other WYSIWYG worth mentioning.
December 13, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Can someone post a good resource/tutorial for using Dreamweaver to product valid, CSS-driven websites? I use TextMate right now to do everything from the first line of HTML to the last line of PHP/RoR, but I feel like I could probably save some time if I got efficient with Dreamweaver.
December 13, 2006 at 4:52 pm
As soon as you said “He’s younger than me!” I got the impression that you were some high school or middle school kid. The rest of the post confirms it.
December 13, 2006 at 5:01 pm
I use Dreamweaver and I have used it for a long time, until I started a new job and I was required to use VIM or Emacs. Needless to say after using VIM for 2+ years, I prefer VIM over Dreamweaver any day.
December 13, 2006 at 5:06 pm
At my friend’s suggestion I learnt to code in Notepad before I ever learnt to use DreamWeaver. Result? I know how to code decent mark-up and how to bug-hunt without relying on the software.
It doesn’t make you clever but it sure as hell helps you out to have a more rigorous environment when you’re starting out. To the extent that that’s a completely self-evident statement, I agree: shouldn’t have been dugg
December 13, 2006 at 5:45 pm
By the way, you don’t really need line numbers if you have jump to line (Ctrl-G).
December 13, 2006 at 5:56 pm
I had to learn in Notepad because that was just what was available back when the web was shiney and new. I can do HTML, JavaScript, CSS, PHP, ColdFusion, etc up one side and down the other.
If I am on a client site, I can bust out their copy of notepad (or pico or VI or whatever). If I am in my office or at home, you can take Dreamweaver from my cold dead hands. Why should I have to deal with a non updating view, no color coding, etc? Use what tools are available. It’s like saying using a rock is cooler than a hammer. Who cares?
[...] Ed Mills : Coding In Notepad Does Not Make You Clever — I laughed at this post because I used to do the same thing. My buddies in college would be using FrontPage to design sites, and I’d sit beside them smugly while coding away in Notepad and occasionally throwing a smirk in their general directions. [...]
December 13, 2006 at 6:07 pm
Jealousy is not cool. Horrible broken HTML generators is not cool. Bitches are not cool. You are not cool.
I find it a lot easier to write HTML in a simple text editor, I’m a very fast typist and I know HTML well. The mousey point and click world I find to be cumersome and annoying.
December 13, 2006 at 6:26 pm
> But who cares how much you know about the innards?
> We just want the output!
Tell that to those that have to maintain your code. Especially if the WYSIWYG editor (or version of the editor) you used is not available. Let’s not even get into maintaining websites with server-side code generated by WYSIWYG.
December 13, 2006 at 7:05 pm
How many people say they code their website with “notepad” and actually do? Not many. People who are good are smarter than that. People who pretend to be good say things they think makes them leet – which, in return, makes them look like shit.
December 13, 2006 at 7:08 pm
I make small changes with notepad.
I’m the king of the internet.
December 13, 2006 at 7:15 pm
Coding on Notepad is like walking.
Coding on Notepad++ (or equivalent) is like riding a bike.
Coding on DW is like using a car.
“Hey, then I’ll choose the car!”
Really? Yeah, you’ll go faster, but…
1). You have to buy the gas (license).
2). You can’t get out of the road (a few preset HTML/CSS tags and thank you).
3). Inevitable pollution (hidden unwanted code).
3). Most of the time you won’t find a good place where to park. (cross-browser pages? not in MY car dude)
…so, personally, I prefer riding a bike. But I agree that walking because its cool is plain lame.
December 13, 2006 at 7:18 pm
I have repetitive coding that I have to do for updating radio playlists. I keep a little .txt template that I can open in notepad each week specifically for the purpose. I don’t see anything uncool in using the tool that works for the job.
December 13, 2006 at 7:20 pm
On Notepad.exe: Coding in Notepad or some other text editor is an absolute must for first-time HTML programmers. After having learnt how the language works, Notepad is just a drag.
On WYSIWYG: Use whatever works for you, but if you want to work faster, at least use decent editors. Myself, I use KWrite and Kate, because I don’t need WYSIWYG (I prototype using Inkscape). Keyboard navigation in the code editor in Dreamweaver is subpar, when comparing it to KWrite. It’s also impossible to lay out a fluid Web page with Dreamweaver’s graphical UI — and though it can be done with the integrated CSS editor, doing it by hand in a decent text editor is much, much faster if you know the style stanzas (my case).
On code editors in general: Smart indentation, smart navigation, coloring, line numbers, drop-down completion, program structure trees, Subversion/SCM integration… all those things are very worth your while, and all of these are sorely missing in Notepad. And some of them are also missing in Dreamweaver.
December 13, 2006 at 7:54 pm
… no, but it doesn’t make you dumb either.
“Your reasons for doing it are warped and, to be quite honest, quite sad.”
1: I can pretty much guarantee it’s always there, whether I’m in my office or a client site. (And when it’s not, there’s vi, but that’s another debate!)
2: I can drive it without a mouse, because I’ve been using it for so long (about 14 years), that I know all the shortcut keys. Driving stuff without a mouse when you’re actually writing CODE tends to be quick.
I’m typically coding a bunch of AJAX/CSS stuff, against backend databases, so a WYSIWYG editor is pretty much unhelpful.
Thanks for the pointer to notepad2, though, looks reasonable and all the keyboard shortcuts I’m used to work fine, including CTRL-H which is a godsend when you’re re-writing bits of PHP, let me tell you
December 13, 2006 at 8:01 pm
My vote goes for Vim, too 
I’ve been coding with it for more than five years and I really feel comfortable with it… I want to keep control of what I do: I used Dreamweaver a long time ago (back in version 3) and it made me feel like my mind was being controlled by it…
Maybe I’m more in the “programmer side” than in the “designer side”, although I like doing nice designs… but having knowledge of how Good Things(tm) work, taking a look at how most WYSIWYG tools generate code is horrible!
December 13, 2006 at 8:13 pm
There seem to be three distinct strands here, but they are getting muddled up:
1) Using a wysiwyg editor vs hand-crafting your code
and
2)a) is notepad any good as a code editor
and
2)b) is Dreamweaver any good as a code generator
There are also a few comments about websites, rather than web-components – of which more later.
The wysiwyg vs hand-crafted debate is just another version of a discussion which has taken many many forms: home made food vs ready-meals, recording live vs recording in a studio, ceasarian vs vaginal delivery, scrubbed up or au naturel. There is a place for both approaches or one would have won out over the other by now. It is fatuous to pretend otherwise.
Is coding by hand cooler than using a wisywig editor? Well it gives you a lot more control over your code, it makes it much easier for someone else to maintain, and it means that you have to understand what you are doing, so I tend to think that it is a better way to write web pages and individual web components.
But using Notepad, yer actual honest to goddess, Windows Accessories Notepad, just makes things unneccesarily difficult and that isn’t cool. I like to code by hand and I like to cook by hand too. I could use blunt knives and thin pans and cook over a candle-flame, but it would just make the task unpleasant and difficult. Why use a blunt knife? There are plenty of decent code editors out there. Find a good one and and use it.
Where it changes is when you are managing websites rather than coding pages and components. Something that the larger tools give you which the code editors don’t is a toolset to help you manage your website, to track broken links, to manage the directory structure, to version the files and so on. If you are building websites rather than creating web-pages or components in web-pages, then you need a tool that builds or manages sites. It’s been 6 or 7 years since I used Dreamweaver, but it did at least make an attempt at doing those things then, and I assume it does them considerably better now.
Just my 2 cents.
Aphra Behn
December 13, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Couldn’t agree more. If you’re using Notepad (by choice), you’re a nitwit who doesn’t care about being productive.
There are so many great free and light weight text editors available that have fantastic features to actually boost your productivity, you are literally a fool for not taking advantage of it.
If you really want to sound cool, then tell people you write HTML in vi or emacs, and don’t try to make a big fucking deal about it like you’re trying to win cool points. To a real geek, this is like trying to take credit for being able to tie your own shoes.
In summary:
1. Quit bragging about using a crappy tool. (You sound like a dick)
2. Get a real editor and learn how to use it productively.
December 13, 2006 at 8:54 pm
Personally, depending on the situation, I use whatever is easiest. If I’m doing HTML or CSS, I tend to use Dreamweaver – fantastic bit of software.
However, when I’m doing database work or PHP, I use BBEdit, – essentially a notepad like program. Both programs have their merits, and you make some good points about prodution times, efficiencies, etc.
Bottom line is, when writing a piece of code is easier than writing a letter, and you can breeze through a block of PHP faster than you can write a thank you note, (a) stuff like dreamweaver slows you down and (b) there’s a certain amount of internal pride at being able to write in code as easily as one writes in English.
December 13, 2006 at 8:59 pm
“Notepad is not and never will be a productive environment to code web sites. Even on the very basic level, it lacks line numbers and coloured code, how can that be considered useful?”
Not true. The fact of the matter is, notepad is as productive an environment as you make it. I do my coding for my website, which is done in Ruby on Rails, in notepad. Now, does it make me cool, or hip, or anything like that? No. But, it does everything I need.
Line numbers. Why do I need them? When there is an error within any of my code, Rails displays an error page which states “error around line #” and then has a small block of code where the error occurs. I can instantly alt+tab back to my code, make a change, save, and reload.
Coloured code. Once again, why? If you know your own code, and know what it does, then you don’t really need frilly little colors. Just as I was discussing with my friend, when I look at my code, I don’t need color to tell me that this is a variable, this is a method, etc. etc..
Your statement is valid. But it’s not valid in all scenarios. Everything is up to a personal opinion. Notepad is productive for me because it has a small memory footprint, does not have a cluttered interface, and it just works.
December 13, 2006 at 9:54 pm
Visual Studio 2005 is good, I just use it as a standard text editor with syntax highlighting and line numbers, but it will underline non-standards compliant code in red and warn you about depreciated tags.
December 13, 2006 at 10:12 pm
I used to code in nano, which made me really awesome.
Then again, that wasn’t my choice.
December 13, 2006 at 10:25 pm
Wouldn’t it be weird, or downright hilarious, if anyone cited using a tool that they thought was actually “less efficient” yet not really inferior when used properly, and that was exactly the reason that they used it, and that everyone else simply had a different way of looking at it, mainly in order to explain why they had the “obviously superior” method but that other guy already knew that about their better tool(s), and thought he was just listening to arrogant fools? The laughing probably would never stop. It might even be like a big jet-ski accident, or something. Yours IS bigger.
Since initial assumptions generate your logical inferences, hot actually equals cool.
Thus, absoulutely everyone is, and/or isn’t.
Me too, or not. So there, go ahead and argue and let me know who wins, “boys.”
–g
December 13, 2006 at 10:40 pm
i have been studying asp.net for the past few months, and my instructor seemed to think that it beats all the other developer environments out there hands down.
thing is, try uploading a compiled asp.net site to an apache server.
personally, i prefer designing web sites using an electric toothbrush, some hairspray, and a sandwich.
December 13, 2006 at 10:54 pm
I’ve coded with Notepad and my basic FTP editor forever.
Just too lazy and too cheap to get Dreamweaver.
December 13, 2006 at 11:19 pm
I recently had a n00b ask me for help getting started with PHP. On her first day she downloaded Zend Studio and was like, “OK, now what do I do?” My response was, “Close Zend and open notepad and open a webbrowser window to the PHP manual for quick searches.”
When you are getting started, it’s not just about memorizing everything. There’s also the fact that an IDE adds in its own layer of learning curve, even if it cuts out some other layer of learning curve. If you are learning how to write code so that you can get a job, you need to learn the language, because you never know what tools your workplace is going to use. Some places don’t care what you use. Other’s are sticklers. Where I work now they want us to use Zend. At my last contract they wanted folks to work on Dreamweaver. When I was at Amazon in 2000 I was the butt of many jokes because I was still in my “pico is great for code!” phase, but they got me out of that and onto Emacs.
The one stable thing throughout my career has been that you have to be able to read and write code, no matter what tool you use to do it. If a tool destroys pieces of code you write because it thinks it knows better than you (one of my frustrations with Dreamweaver, actually), that’s just a pain in the bee-hind. On the other hand, if a tool slows you down because it makes writing and debugging harder, then that’s no good either.
Of course, when it comes down to notepad, or pico, there is another thing to consider. A program that adds in non-standard characters like smart quotes or non-*nix linebreaks will cause problems when someone else opens that code for editting. If no one else is going to touch your code, no problem. Code and be happy.
December 14, 2006 at 12:35 am
Gee, could one possibly come up with a more boring and worthless topic to argue about?
[...] I used to code using Notepad because there was no way I could convince my boss that I needed Dreamweaver or FrontPage to manage the codes better. The reply would usually be “How much?” and when given the quote, the answer never really came back because they deem it “over-budget” or “it’s not the core business so let’s forget this whole thing, shall we?”, in the end, I had to use the alternative, Notepad. It was torture, really. [...]
December 14, 2006 at 1:37 am
I’ve been coding since 1977, and thus have used a lot of editors. Currently I manage a small team of developers writing software for nuclear power plants.
When I see someone who claims their main development environment is notepad, I see someone who will not be working for me. It may sound harsh, but the business world is all about productivity and getting the job done quickly and bug free.
Tools like Visual Studio give me and my team the edge by providing a powerful debugging tool, intellisense, and other goodies. Add-ins like CodeRush further enhance our coding speed.
Sure, sometimes a simple text editor is handy for quick changes to a config file, but even then a decent text editor like UltraEdit or the free Notepad2 is better, syntax highlighting helps prevent bugs. Misspelled keywords won’t be colored correctly, and as simple as this sounds it’s helped catch many a bug.
Perhaps for a “noob” trying to learn, a simple text editor is good, as it does force some memory over keywords, but pure repetition will eventually force that anyway.
As for the argument that an IDE (like VS2k5) is too hard to learn, give me a break. If you can learn to program you can go to the effort of learning an IDE.
I have to go with the author, for those of us who make a living writing software there’s nothing “cool” about notepad.
December 14, 2006 at 1:46 am
Personally, I find line numbering, colored syntax, and most of all “whizzywig” to be a hindrance. Granted, I don’t make websites for a living so I have no time pressures, but to me doing it in an honest plaintext fashion just “feels” so much better than letting a program pick even one line of HTML code for me. People who *do* need to churn out websites as quickly as possible probably do see tools like Dreamweaver in a mich more positive light, but I just couldn’t bring myself to do it.
In Windows, I use Notepad. Everywhere else, it’s vim. I think it’s cool, flame me
December 14, 2006 at 1:49 am
I have the same issue with folks trying to code applications in vi or vim and telling me I’m a loser for using IntelliJ.
December 14, 2006 at 1:56 am
But when you use tools like dreamweaver it adds a lot of junk lines to your code. When you are struck in a place where you dont have dreamweaver and you want to make some changes to your code you have to read the entire thing which would be a great problem for you as you would not have gone to the coding tab in dreamweaver with its very effective palette which allows you to drag and drop items into your workspace. Most people who tend to use dreamweaver for creating web sites do not use it for its colouring effect but for its brag and drop feature.
December 14, 2006 at 2:09 am
Haha good topic. Frankly I like Notepad 2. I am self taught, and frankly handcoding was easier to learn than Dreamweaver, which I have, but never use. I have also used html kit.
Hand-coding is good for the soul … plus it satisfies my OCD tendencies.
December 14, 2006 at 2:16 am
I plan to learn how to code in CSS and I’ll start learning with Notepad, to make it simpler for myself.
December 14, 2006 at 2:42 am
I just started using Notepad ++ to code my asp.net sites because it’s tabbed and I can split the screen in two and easily clone files. Has anyone given Firebug a go? That’s next on my list…
December 14, 2006 at 2:42 am
that person coding in notepad is a purist.or he’s just showing off (and your mate bit the bait).
ask your mate to go back to him and mention that you use “copy con index.html” command to do up your website or via “vi” (linux/unix). ask him to top that.
to each its own i would say…ask long as the end result doesn’t suck, everybody wins
December 14, 2006 at 2:58 am
pico was my first editor for writing my first program – hello world – using C. yeah, our instructor made us use pico. hahaha.. . then when i was learning Java i used good old notepad for like 2 semesters. hated that bluejay editor and there was another one.
then later i shifted to editors with line numbers and syntax highlighting. makes your work even faster.. . or the folding feature.. . love that! 
December 14, 2006 at 3:24 am
I prefer to code in Textpad (sth like Notepad2) than Notepad. Notepad is sooo ancient, it’s the program that I used when I first started to learn programming.
December 14, 2006 at 3:37 am
You’re right… using Notepad does NOT make you cool.
Hand-coding, however, gets you down with the ladies in a hurry.
December 14, 2006 at 3:45 am
no… With IDEs you dont even know whats going on,so for a beginner,its better to start with Notepad, to get a brief idea of whats what
December 14, 2006 at 4:22 am
for me i use FrontPage 2003 to build my site: http://www.naraths.co.nr
December 14, 2006 at 4:22 am
the only place I can code is Vim/Gvim. nothing else ever works for me. If you club it with Ctags and Cscope, you get the world’s most powerful coding tools
December 14, 2006 at 4:37 am
i really dislike dreamweaver. It has its good points but sometimes it puts a bunch of messy nonsense where it is unnecessary. I am not saying I have everything memorized or anything, that would be ridiculous but i use notepad quite often to edit code. I sometimes steal code, then i fix it up in notepad. that works nicely and it makes sense. sometimes in dreamweaver i can’t even find what is wrong with the code. i takes more time to fix the crap they put in the code than it would have to find a nice clean piece of code on the internet and paste it into notepad, edit it, voila.
this said, no, i do not think i am any cooler than someone who uses dreamweaver 100%. well maybe slightly but probably not because I use notepad.
December 14, 2006 at 4:52 am
When you’re starting off with basic usage, it’s good practice to use Notepad. When you’re experienced and rooting for productivity, however, it’s good to go with Dreamweaver already.
Dreamweaver is complex, yes, but it’s got more features. In school it’s Dreamweaver we’re taking up, and I’m already losing my phobia little by little…
December 14, 2006 at 5:03 am
I think the main point that was made here is that; Just because you KNOW how to code in a barebones environment, and the fact that you CHOOSE to do so, when there are a few thousand alternatives that will cut your coding time in half – leads one to believe there is an underlying attention-whore in that vitamin-D deficient frame of yours sporting a Blackberry thumb.
Oh wait… Blackberries are a little beyond your realm, aren’t they… with all that “convenience” and “ease of use”? You’re so much cooler because you use a to have someone back at your office read your email to you.
December 14, 2006 at 5:05 am
Well that was unexpected… “Pay Phone” was totally erased in the link that goes nowhere… oh well.
December 14, 2006 at 6:19 am
yeah i have friends who think they’re smarter because they used notepad..it’s just so funny. Why in the world would i wanna make myself miserable?
December 14, 2006 at 7:29 am
Completely agree. Boss hope programmers can finish their work quickly and well. It cost less time to use Dreamweaver than notepad to code web page. Remember that you are wasting time when you use notepad to code just for “cool”. The time your company must pay.
December 14, 2006 at 9:17 am
What’s cooler?
Notepad over Dreamweaver, Assembly over VB…
Some people get their high from doing things the harder, geekier way.
That’s not bad or lame. That’s just their idea of fun. They think it’s cool.
December 14, 2006 at 9:29 am
Ok everybody, stop whining and do all your websites in HEX… Now you can say that you’re cool, otherwise…
December 14, 2006 at 9:55 am
HEX?
Ugh. Bring on the 0s and 1s. Hex is just a modern day comfort tool.
Infact where are those punch cards thingies…
December 14, 2006 at 10:27 am
I use notepad when I want to edit code but I’m in an internet cafe. No code hints, no syntax colouring, no snippets. It’s not easy, but possible. Very old skool I guess. But as for “cool”, hmm. Increased eye strain and stiff neck isn’t cool.
December 14, 2006 at 10:32 am
I think I know some people who think that using notepad is cooler than WYSIWYG editor… the hype was that they code it themselves (which requires more HTML/CSS skills), rather than doing just drag-and-drops.
Perhaps some people will also say it cool to code using SciTe (or other more suitable editors); the key was doing the pages from scratch, and they feel high to be able to de ‘geeky’ things… That’s what I see, though.
December 14, 2006 at 11:36 am
wysiwyg is great until it ‘helps’ you out and makes your thing (say table) screwed up, nor can wysiwyg handle large files imho
code is code. the code you want may not be what the wysiwyg wants to produce. but both methods are valid in the right place at the right time
however – notepad (im my case kate or gedit) remain editors and childrens web designer programs like flash and insert ‘moron retard html editor’ are not
December 14, 2006 at 12:00 pm
Sorry, I saw this and just had to respond.
Currently in my 4th year of a comp sci degree and my final project is to do with websites – dreamweaver is not big and is not clever if you want a “proper” website. I’d be shot if I used it for any of my sites in uni.
Although, having said that, Notepad isn’t the best editor in the world but at least I know what my code is doing when I put it in an editor & at least it is readable and VALID!
December 14, 2006 at 12:23 pm
there are times where certain individuals have the urge to display their ‘”stone age” nature. and some certainly did by using notepad instead of dreamweaver
December 14, 2006 at 12:43 pm
Are we talking about websites, or blogging? I guess that technically, a blog is a website, but for the purposes of writing a post in my blog, I just type it directly in the code section of wordpress, and hand write the code.
But, that’s just a couple of paragraphs, with maybe one or 2 links or pictures.
Or am I completely missing the point?
December 14, 2006 at 3:24 pm
I guess that coding in Notepad is good for nostalgia. You know, like breaking out the Atari 2600. That’s about it though.
December 14, 2006 at 4:24 pm
>
Haha, I agree. I like using Notepad in the same way in which I like doing puzzles. It challenges me and makes me think about what I’m doing, how and why. And it makes me learn the code. Then again, I’m not a professional.
December 14, 2006 at 5:06 pm
I’m so confused – Dreamweaver and other WYSIWYG tools mess up your code? I’ve NEVER had that happen. There’s a huge difference between dragging things around on a screen, using the “B” & “I” buttons, and actually using the full capacity of the tool. There’s nothing better than a tool like Dreamweaver (or others) that allows you to see all your files, all your assets, all your classes and ids available, etc. all in one place. It’s totally possible to create semantically accurate, standards based, cross-browser-compatible, completely clean HTML, CSS and JS entirely in a tool like Dreamweaver. If you know what you’re doing. And if you make your living building web sites, where time = money, using anything that speeds up the process is of the utmost importance.
December 14, 2006 at 5:12 pm
I started out coding in Notepad. I never did it because it was “cool” but because in was my way of forcing myself to memorize basic tags and getting used to reading the code.
It started getting out of hand once my designs increased in complexity, and I started using PHP. Now i use PHP Designer 2006 as my IDE; I still have to code manually (which I enjoy) but the lines are color coded, and it helps me keep track of all my “assets”.
I will say that Coding in notepad helps make one “clever” in the sense that you do learn a lot from doing things manually, but eventually you’ll grow out of that and have to move on to something that’ll increase productivity, as you said in your post.
December 15, 2006 at 1:40 am
Coding in Notepad should be every budding webdesigners first program. as others have said, manually writing the code helps you remember it.
also, most beginning web designers dont need all the bloated extras that come with dreamweaver.
however, once youve been at web design for a few years, you usually move up from notepad to something a little more automated and efficient.
so, your argument is only half right.
December 15, 2006 at 3:10 am
A lot of you have referred to Dreamweaver as only a WYSIWYG, but it is more than that. I started using HTML in Dreamweaver over 3 years ago, never even touched notepad while learning, and still know much more HTML than any of my friends ever have. Rarely ever use it’s WYSIWYG, maybe for previewing basic layouts and colors.
I also don’t think it is necessary to memorize code. You should know that language’s syntax, but trying to remember many functions and classes is not the best idea IMO in real programming languages (not HTML).
December 15, 2006 at 8:47 am
I would use Quanta or even mozilla as a composer (by the way notepad does not make you cool…knowing how to code makes you cool haha) If you really want geek status try Vi or emacs, now those programs REQUIRE a learning curve
December 15, 2006 at 8:51 am
programs like dreamweaver, as well as even adobe go live add on unwanted stuff to the code, sometimes if you omit, and re-add soemthing, junk starts to pile up, and the code doesn’t come out “tide” …Yes there are people who are control freaks when it comes as to how the html/css/etc is laid out. The most important part , dreamweaver costs money where notepad does not.
a notepad-like utility i like as well is edit pad lite
check it out here
http://www.editpadpro.com/editpadlite.html
if you want Quanta go here
http://quanta.kdewebdev.org/ (it’s windows portable
Sorry for the double-post.
[...] Coding in Notepad does not make you clever. [...]
December 29, 2006 at 1:31 am
vi rules wq!
Actually, after the code is written, one of the most important parts of it is maintainability. If you are going to be maintaining the codebase until eternity, then you can use any development environment you want. However, if you are delivering your code to the customer, then it would be a good practice to write your code in a standard and readable form. Creating your code in a text editor (and not using autoformatting aids like preset tabs) helps ensure that your product can be read by nearly every editor in existence. Even vi. If you edit your code in a dev environment like dreamweaver, or Borland and for java, then you are beginning to limit the options that anyone else maintaining the code can use to do their job.
Neonblue, since you bring up “real” programming languages. It is essential that you know how many of the methods and functions work. If you are relying on code generation to get by, you will be in dire straights in nearly any corporate environment. For that matter, you really should know what the html editors generate because some of that stuff is generic and can be pared away in any case where performance is key.
March 21, 2007 at 7:44 am
If you enjoy substandard products, workmanship, functionality, originality and a total lack of bandwidth control(ever file is twice the size with the crap it adds) then dreamweaver is for you!
I don’t care if you use notepad, editpad, programmer’s notepad, TED notepad, Wordpad or the linux pico editor, but scripting by hand DOES make you a better web designer, because your talents aren’t limited by software that spits out generic websites.
There is nothing wrong with notepad…its a text editor, most basic and usually runs faster than others because of its lack of complexity. It provides a more direct conduit for your creativity than another more robust, but less free piece of software.
I don’t think the point of using notepad is that you’re using notepad, but that you’re building your pages by hand, which is consideribly more impressive on both a technical and creative level than using an automated program.
-Brinson
June 22, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Ok, but before the still different classy mature with the door and britches swung.
June 26, 2007 at 6:44 am
Ginny gave me. After which includes having your personal xxx blondes reading so many.
July 8, 2007 at 10:50 am
information on pregnancy She stumbled and clarence, and he has an adult theme and the.
July 9, 2007 at 4:24 am
Your wet! I turned, yes mistress she replied as possible. I, partyspiel jugendlich happily.
July 12, 2007 at 12:20 am
The urge to the bottle actually. Moving your fingers, her ts tv s fetisch legs. I held up.
torticollis
stiff neck is very painful! For more info cheak out
August 24, 2007 at 8:43 pm
5 million, the petite teenagers rustle of the scene and the heat.
September 25, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Her goldie hawn pics neighbour, _cloned from the deceased the deceased the written to.
September 26, 2007 at 3:46 am
Hair colors too were very naughty boy this sesso con animali immagini gratis academy. Miller pulls back abruptly, and.
October 12, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Thats what about forty minutes. The job to convince me anice dirty hoes getting fucked big bubble. Yes.
January 11, 2009 at 6:07 am
Yes, whos gv589 ill travestis estrelas kill ` em both to be a.
November 9, 2009 at 12:29 pm
The finished product, on from the?Printed mugs The, feel-good factors like.Catastrophes associated with, the shortcuts to.Or other professionals Fetisch, size They will simply a new.Offered that are, of additional handy.,
December 12, 2006 at 5:44 pm
I can think of one reason to use notepad or a really basic editor and that is to force your self to memorize html and test yourself on how well you know it.